Jocelyn Artinger: Markham Elementary School

Interviewed by Naomi Shin

Jocelyn Artinger is the principal of Markham Elementary in the Mt. Lebanon School District.

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Naomi: To start off, can you introduce yourself and provide an overview of your work in education and advocacy and how you've got here so far?

Jocelyn: My name is Jocelyn Artinger. I am principal at Markham Elementary School in the Mt. Lebanon school district. I feel like I've always been working with children. Even in high school, I was a camp counselor, babysat, all those things. But it wasn't until I actually went to Pitt for undergrad and I did a program called Jumpstart which went into low income preschools and tried to get kids ready for kindergarten with early literacy skills that [...] my passion for the classroom kind of came to my life. [...] I started as a Jumpstart core member and I went to graduate school, taught in mostly predominantly low income areas that served black and brown students- Sto Rox, I worked for the city for a little while, and I worked for propeller charter schools as well. And then, you know, it, it came to a point where I felt like I wanted to have a bigger impact, which is why I became a principal. And you know, being able to lead teachers and help a greater number of students was really important to me. And so as a principal, I've been in a couple of different schools most recently here in Mark, this is my fourth school year here.

And you know, something that's really special about Mount Lebanon is the community aspect of all of the schools. We have neighborhood schools in all of our areas, the kids walk to school every day and it is, it's really a unique, a unique experience. And so part of my work with the Three Rs has really been com being committed to you know, racial equity and making sure that even in this area, all students have access to books that look like them, represent them and access to high quality literacy instruction as well. And I'm also a doctoral student. I forgot to say that I'm a doctoral student at Pitts. I'm in my third year. so I hope to be finishing up this school year.

Naomi: Awesome, congratulations on finishing that doctoral program a big deal.

Jocelyn: I'm looking forward to.

Naomi: I'm sure you are. So obviously you have a wide range of experience in education, can you talk a little bit about the most important needs in education right now and how maybe they've changed in the last few years. Yeah.

Jocelyn: You know, it's really interesting because, I think that they have changed but they have also not changed. I think that, you know, the most fundamental part of education is relationships and, knowing who your students are and knowing what they need and them being able to trust that you not only have that knowledge but that you can give them what they need. I think is so important and I think that during the pandemic and returning to school, sometimes in education, like everyone, we can get caught in ruts of, well, this is how we do it. And now there really is a call and a need to accelerate our protocols and systems to really be thinking about what Children need as they have changed from the pandemic and what their needs have been, particularly from a social, emotional learning lens. You know, kids missed out on a lot of interactions that would have been built those social and emotional skills. And so now as they're coming back into classrooms, we need to be more explicit with teaching them how to manage conflict, how to problem solve, how to goal set, all of those soft skills that we know that are so important. we need to really be proactive in, in doing that. And then also closing gaps for Children who we recognize have needs academically as well. Got you.

Naomi: So how, how do we work towards solving those gaps? Like what work can you speak to the work you're doing to address these?

Jocelyn: Yeah. So I think, you know, one of the things that we're working on here in Mount Lebanon, and then I know schools across the country are, are working on is really using data to identify what students needs are. And then it, you know, it's interesting that, you know, this is a medical program because one of the things that we talk about, when we talk about multi tiered systems of supports, we have, you know, assessments that kind of say give us an alert.

Hey, here's this kid, here's what their scores are. Here's the average range, here's where they fall. And then we need to get some diagnostics to really figure out what do we need to do to support them? Where are they particularly having difficulty? And so it is kind of look at it almost like a medical model on how do we triage students to, to get to the most important thing first and then come up with a long term program to support them.

But in order to do that, you need resources. And so I think that is one of the, the greatest challenges is thinking about how to utilize the people that we have in the building. So that we can maximize support for kids because people aren't coming from, you know, random places to be certified teachers. It's just not happening. And so we have to figure out how to use the staff that we have to support the children's needs that are shifting, that are changing.

And I think that that is one of the most challenging things, especially as here we have and I, I know folks are seeing this across the county and an increase in, you know, low socioeconomic status as, as we are pulling, as a society, pulling supports away from people in poverty, we're seeing the effects of that in, in the classroom. So, you know, getting folks access to free breakfast, free lunch here in the schools and, and then in some cases overcoming language barriers to be able to help them fill out those paperwork and get the things that they need to be able to get these resources so that not only they can have, you know, the, the education that they deserve, but they can have those basic physiological needs met addition to feeling safe, but you're feeling full and satiated and you're in school and you're ready to learn, you've had enough sleep. And so really thinking about all of those things, as we look in Children in our schools.

Naomi: Yeah, that's, I think that's so important to like, look at what are all the factors outside of school to affect this kids learning.

Jocelyn: Yeah. I mean, I think if you look at, like, I, I just finished this book Po Poverty by America. It's a really great book. And, Matthew Desmond, the author talks about the way that we eliminated poverty over the last two years during COVID when we were giving people all of these resources to support them. There was an increase in, food subsidies, there was an increase in the unemployment checks.

There was an increase in the earned income tax credit for families. And so, you know, families had more money to be supporting their families with, you know, there was a lower debt to income ratio. And so I just think that now that all of those supports are gone and we're returning back to normal, what we're really doing is removing scaffolds for families and we've got to figure out how to put those back in place.

So I know Pennsylvania was just recently passing, I think in this most recent budget free breakfast for all students, but really like what can we do to make break lunch free for all students? You know, because I should have had Children with negative $300 balances and, and then we're trying to scramble and figure out how to help families, you know, figure that out.

Naomi: So can you talk about how maybe like your experience as a principal and like seeing these disparities in real life has informed and affected your work with the Three Rs team and any other advocacy teams that you work on.

Jocelyn: Absolutely. I think it has, it has really informed the work that I do with a 33 hours team. You know, we, confer at least monthly and we talk about what I'm seeing in schools and what I'm hearing from teachers and what they need. You know, because being a building principal, I'm not in every classroom, every day, as much as I would love to be that I can't be.

And so I really have to rely on my teachers for them to communicate what they need and I need to create systems for them to be able to do that and to support students. And so, you know, we've had a significant rise in students who are English learners and I mean, and in the last year, we've doubled the number of students in our building. And so I think that that does something in terms of the teachers instruction, they need to completely shift and learn how to adapt with students who are English learners and giving them the right amount of support. We don't wanna over support those students, but we also want to make sure that we are giving them enough support while being cognizant that they're learning a language. But we also have these standards that we want them to learn. So there's a lot at play. And so we want to make a combinations that are, that are respectful but also meaningful for what they need.

And I would say that my relationships with the three Rs team, I'm able to communicate that with them. And then they're one of the things that's super beneficial is they're pulling research for me and they're pulling research for, for the professional development that they do throughout the county as well. And then we're able to put that into practice really quickly.

And so I think that there's a lot of power in the relationship between universities and school districts and really being able to get the information about best practice and what's coming out in research so that we can then turn that over and put it into practice.

Naomi: That's so awesome. It's like a mutually beneficial relationship. Yes.

Jocelyn: Yes, it is. It really is.

Naomi: So we know with a lot of evidence backing it up that like education and health and well-being are pretty closely linked and, you know, there's obviously a lot of extenuating factors influencing that as well. How do you see the intersection between the medical community and education in addressing these disparities?

Jocelyn: Hm. I mean, I think it's really, it's a, it's a really important intersection, particularly the mental health community. You know, we, especially in elementary schools, I always say middle schools and high schools have it so much easier because we do a lot of the problem solving and, you know, we do a lot of mtss meetings here where we're trying to figure out how to support kids, how to get them, access to programming, how to get them identified with certain disabilities or diagnoses so that they can then get support. And I feel like there often is not enough resources for families. I was just on the phone with a family last night and, you know, they're on a three month waiting list to get their child therapeutic services. That, that's unacceptable. We, we've really got to figure out how to get Children, the support that they need, get families, the support that they need. so that we can get the early intervention because we know that's what works best for Children and what it's gonna work best for our country in the long run is if we can have adults and citizens who are well, it is, is really important and you've gotten all of the support that they needed from a young age just makes us all stronger. So I think that that's the, the one really important thing and if there could be a stronger bridge between schools and mental health professionals, I think would be really, really beneficial. You know, if, if I have a student who's dia diagnosed with diabetes, which is a, as a, something that happened to us this summer since then, I've gotten four or five different medical treatment plans. You know, but that I can have a child diagnosed with a DH D and they just have that diagnosis and nothing else happens unless, you know, we're pushing for them to have support and that child needs just as much support as the student with diabetes. but it's not viewed in the same way and I think that that is really, a missing piece that, that we need to think more deeply about.

Naomi: Right. Yeah, I definitely feel like there's been a trend of like more awareness of mental health being equally as important as physical health, but there is still a lot to do action wise to make that happen. Can you talk, you touched on this a little bit? But can you talk about like unique challenges that Children from diverse, like racial and cultural backgrounds face in accessing quality education?

Jocelyn: Yeah, I mean, I think there are a lot of, you know, there are a lot of barriers, I think just sorry, hold on one second. Ok. Right back. Thanks. Bye bye. You know, there are, there are a lot of barriers Children from marginalized communities face and marginalized backgrounds even, you know, I to start off with if, if we're thinking about schools in an urban environment, typically they're underserved, they're underresourced, they're understaffed.

They don't have the things that they need to meet students needs. And then I think that there's a barrier in the relationships that families have with the school. That's one thing that I noticed here that was significantly different. When I started working, the families feel like the school is their school. It's a community school. It belongs to the neighborhood and they behave in, in that way, there's an, almost an ownership, you know, I went to school here.

My dad went to school here, my grandma went to school here. You know, they know the hallways, they know the classrooms, in some cases, they know the teachers and that relationship is not present in in urban environments. And I think for a number of reasons, teachers turn over, administration turns over super quickly and, and families have not always had positive experiences with schools.

There's a lot of push out that happens particularly for black and brown Children when we're thinking of punitive discipline policies. And so I think that you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of work to do and that, that disparity happens here, it happens, you know, in suburban schools for black and brown Children as well. And then I think that there's also a tendency to to track Children which is very harmful.

You know, when we are looking at the student data that I was mentioning earlier, what tends to happen is we say, OK, well, here are my high kids, here are my average range kids and here are my low kids. Let's split them up and give them the high kids access to instruction and, and give these other two groups different access. And so what that really does is it accelerates disparities because we're not giving Children all the same access, we can differentiate within one group of kids and they can be a heterogeneous group of kids, but that is not often what we do. And so I think that practices like that really need to be looked at because across settings that really has been proven by research to be harmful and then especially for black and brown Children. And I think that there's also a little bit of opportunity hoarding that happens. you know, certain groups of people have resources and have extra opportunities and then it doesn't lend itself to groups that actually need that support. And I think that that's something else that systems need to be mindful of.

Naomi: Hm. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. I guess that leads into my next question. Can you talk about like structures or policies that you hope to see change in, in the next few years to improve outcomes in education and reduce disparities?

Jocelyn: Yeah, I would hope that there would be a significant focus on mental health support particularly in schools development of staff and faculty and their understanding of different types of disabilities that we're seeing in schools, ways to support and accommodate and discipline and support students with dignity and you know, help create structures in school that really support all Children and not just one group of Children.

I think it is going to be really important. I think that we also need to be thinking a little more critically about the nature of school itself and what we want schools to look like and what we want Children to have access to across school districts. You know, Pennsylvania is unique in that we have all of these little pockets of school districts that we need everybody to be working together.

Because, you know, our whole county is symbiotic like we all work together. And if one part of our county isn't working well, then, you know, we need everybody to be together on that, I guess is, is what I'm saying. And so if our neighbor next door is not as thriving of a school district as we are, then, that, that means that we should help that school district in my mind, you know.

So I think that Pennsylvania really has some work to do in that area because some other systems in other states because they're Countywide are a little more equitable in their resources. And so there was just recently a Supreme, a Pennsylvania Supreme Court case that ruled that our funding structures were inequitable.

And so I think in the next couple of years, there's an opportunity to really look at that. And think differently about the way that we're funding schools and in the way in which we expect schools to support Children, every school should have a school nurse. Every school should have at least one full time school counselor. in order to be able to support the Children in their classrooms, I, I asked this because I'm just curious.

Naomi: It's not on my question list. But can you talk about how, we fund schools in our area right now and how that's different from Countywide funding?

Jocelyn: Yeah. Sure. So, what happens right now? And this is, you know, I, I'm not a legal scholar. So this is just my, my understanding from what I've seen and studied, is we, we get federal funding, we get some state funding, but a lot of the school funding is made up through, taxes from homeowners. And if you have, an area that has low home ownership or low property value, you are not getting as much, income from those areas.

So, you know, I think a lot about a place like mckees Rocks. I used to work in store rocks. And so they don't get as much funding. And so typically, then what should happen is that the state should make up for that funding so that, you know, there's like a, a statewide per pupil. I wouldn't say like budget but, you know, every school is a different per pupil that they're spending, there's a number that you spend per pupil for students with disabilities and without it.

But every school district that's different in a county wide system, everyone gets the same thing and then it's spread across schools. So even if there are, I'm thinking like in my parents live in Chesterfield County, in Richmond, Virginia, right outside of us. For not in the city. But, and so there are five or six high schools you can go and choose which high school you want to go to based on an arts focus, based on a science focus, but they're all equitably funded.

Everybody has a certain number of money that they get based on the number of Children. And so it's not, well, this high school on this road because it's in this zip code with this tax base gets, you know, this much money but a place that's a couple of blocks over, but in a different zip code gets significantly less. because that just perpetuates inequities, right?

Naomi: Yeah, that's really interesting how the the other school district that you mentioned that was funded. OK, the last question that I have is what advice do you have for medical students and physicians who will read this newsletter? and are interested in getting involved and advocating for equitable education. Like, are there resources or like networks you can recommend for information or support or like?

Jocelyn: Yeah, that's a really good question. You know, I think when I, especially when I think about my experience as, as a black woman in medical spaces, they have not always been positive. And so I think for me, I would really love it if you know, medical students would really research more about that connection because I think the the patient doctor relationship is so important because you know, when you think about trust and you think about relationships on from the educational side, it's just as equally important on the medical side because my willingness to be vulnerable with my doctor and be honest and open with my doctor really is dependent and on like my relationship with them. And if we don't have a good positive relationship, I don't feel like I can trust you or I don't feel like you're listening to me really means that I'm not getting the kind of care that I deserve and could really have negative outcomes on the longevity or well-being of my my life long term. And so, you know, I think that there are books, medical Apartheid and even like the, the Life of Henry, An, the Immortal Life of Henry an LA I think is one and there are lots of different books out there that really talk about the relationship of the historical relationship of the medical community and marginalized groups, especially black and brown folks.

And I think that there's a lot of repair that has to be done in order for there to be healing and, and, and bridge building moving forward. And so I would say if we're thinking about ways that the medical community can support, that would be a really large one. And then, you know, I would say, you know, II I think it depends on like what your, what your field is gonna be or your specialty is going to be.

But then also joining in the, the fight to have schools be equitably funded and have supports for Children, especially with mental health services, I think is, is a really important piece and I hate to even call it mental health as I typically lean to social emotional wellness and well-being because there's such a stigma around this idea of mental health, even though, you know, it, it does make sense.

It's just social, emotional well-being sounds a little bit nicer I think, but it is mental health and it is really important. And so I think more folks in the medical community speaking out about that and giving families access is is really important.